THE GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL-TIME TEAM - by position - Left-handed Starting Pitcher

[matfanofold]

I would take a average pitcher today over a "HOF" pitcher prior to the 50's.

The level of athletic talent, training, and learned skill is so far above what it once was. Before the 40's most ball players were nothing more than seasonal help (with a handful of exceptions of course). And although it became more of a year round job with specialized training as the decades went on, I could not imagine simply comparing stats between a pitcher today and 50 years (or more) ago. Pitchers today have to face entire line-ups of hitters that have been handpicked, prepped, and trained year round with advanced physical and mental training since high school or before. The level of training and talent in the batters box today far surpasses anything prior. It's only leveled out because todays pitchers are also getting this specialized training/treatment since almost birth.

Point being, Johnson was the most dominant lefty in the past 40 or more years. And if he had the oppertunity to pitch in past era's, he would have bee all the more dominant. Koufax would get my #2 simply because he is the second best talent on that list.

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

I would take a average pitcher today over a "HOF" pitcher prior to the 50's.

The level of athletic talent, training, and learned skill is so far above what it once was. Before the 40's most ball players were nothing more than seasonal help (with a handful of exceptions of course). And although it became more of a year round job with specialized training as the decades went on, I could not imagine simply comparing stats between a pitcher today and 50 years (or more) ago. Pitchers today have to face entire line-ups of hitters that have been handpicked, prepped, and trained year round with advanced physical and mental training since high school or before. The level of training and talent in the batters box today far surpasses anything prior. It's only leveled out because todays pitchers are also getting this specialized training/treatment since almost birth.

Point being, Johnson was the most dominant lefty in the past 40 or more years. And if he had the oppertunity to pitch in past era's, he would have bee all the more dominant. Koufax would get my #2 simply because he is the second best talent on that list.

High caliber in training? How many complete games did Spahn and Grove pitch in comparison to Johnson? Point being is that there is this faulty notion that athletes in all major sports are sooo much better now and that these old-timers were unathletic slugs. Incorrect. When baseball was still our National Pastime and had the entire soul of American youth, they had the first pick of premiere athletes. Now, many athletes pick football and basketball and sometimes other sports first and THEN baseball. Pre-expansion baseball insured that only the "cream of the crop" made the big leagues. The several additional minor leagues made that a fact. If Randy Johnson would have played during the golden era, I estimate he would have probably at least 50-60 less wins. Pitcher's from this era aren't as durable and certainly play against more watered down competition. Grove and Spahn can rightfully be considered the best southpaws of all-time. Sandy Koufax was amazing for such a small period of time, but doesn't make the list because of his injuries.

 

[matfanofold]

High caliber in training? How many complete games did Spahn and Grove pitch in comparison to Johnson? Point being is that there is this faulty notion that athletes in all major sports are sooo much better now and that these old-timers were unathletic slugs. Incorrect. When baseball was still our National Pastime and had the entire soul of American youth, they had the first pick of premiere athletes. Now, many athletes pick football and basketball and sometimes other sports first and THEN baseball. Pre-expansion baseball insured that only the "cream of the crop" made the big leagues. The several additional minor leagues made that a fact. If Randy Johnson would have played during the golden era, I estimate he would have probably at least 50-60 less wins. Pitcher's from this era aren't as durable and certainly play against more watered down competition. Grove and Spahn can rightfully be considered the best southpaws of all-time. Sandy Koufax was amazing for such a small period of time, but doesn't make the list because of his injuries.

I guess we will just have to disagree as I do with virtually every single point you made, expecially the notion that the Unit would have actually lost 50-60 games playing back then. No big deal though as it's all speculation...

 

[Ryan The Orange]

Spahn and the Big Unit. Koufax is overrated. Nearly 200 fewer wins than Spahn. Not saying wins mean everything, but a difference of 198 sure does.

 

[homerun28aa]

Said Koufax, then Spahn, although I think Spahn is warranted to be first. Surprised that not a single person voted for the deadballer Eddie Plank he was solid. No way does Glavine deserve more votes than Plank lol

 

[jbhofmann]

High caliber in training? How many complete games did Spahn and Grove pitch in comparison to Johnson? Point being is that there is this faulty notion that athletes in all major sports are sooo much better now and that these old-timers were unathletic slugs. Incorrect. When baseball was still our National Pastime and had the entire soul of American youth, they had the first pick of premiere athletes. Now, many athletes pick football and basketball and sometimes other sports first and THEN baseball. Pre-expansion baseball insured that only the "cream of the crop" made the big leagues. The several additional minor leagues made that a fact. If Randy Johnson would have played during the golden era, I estimate he would have probably at least 50-60 less wins. Pitcher's from this era aren't as durable and certainly play against more watered down competition. Grove and Spahn can rightfully be considered the best southpaws of all-time. Sandy Koufax was amazing for such a small period of time, but doesn't make the list because of his injuries.

Have you heard that a couple of guys apparently took performance enhancing drugs while Johnson pitched from a lower mound?

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

Have you heard that a couple of guys apparently took performance enhancing drugs while Johnson pitched from a lower mound?

Did you hear that several pitchers did as well? No one is above suspicion.

 

[nosterbor]

Did you hear that several pitchers did as well? No one is above suspicion.

"No one is above suspicion"
UHHHH.....I would say Maddux! Greg Maddux.

 

[Nate Colbert 17]

John Donaldson should also get some consideration.

 

[Frow]

Have you heard that a couple of guys apparently took performance enhancing drugs while Johnson pitched from a lower mound?

Players were taking "performance enhancers" as far back as the 1800's.

As for a previous quote about it being watered down I'm not so sure given that baseball today is an international sport and pulls more talent from a larger pool than whereas many on the list spent considerable time pitching online to certain racial groups.

With all that said I may just have to vote for The Big Unit simply for exploding a bird in mid air.

 

[James52411]

Koufax didn't pitch long enough at a high enough level to be better than most of the other guys on this list.

 

[Mozzie22]

Can someone who voted for Koufax please explain to me why? 5 great years does not make you the best left handed pitcher of all time.

 

[ChasHawk]

Koufax didn't pitch long enough at a high enough level to be better than most of the other guys on this list.

Yet he'll end up winning this poll...::facepalm::

Mostly, in my opinion, because he's had autos in the last couple years topps products.

 

[MansGame]

Yet he'll end up winning this poll...::facepalm::

Mostly, in my opinion, because he's had autos in the last couple years topps products.

LOL!!!

 

[Frow]

Koufax didn't pitch long enough at a high enough level to be better than most of the other guys on this list.

I guess it depends on your definition of best. I would argue that Bo Jackson might have been one of the best at his position simply for being an amazing athlete even if he didn't have enough healthy years.

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[ChasHawk]

I guess it depends on your definition of best. I would argue that Bo Jackson might have been one of the best at his position simply for being an amazing athlete even if he didn't have enough healthy years.

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Bo Jackson might have been the best athlete of all time, but as far as his baseball career, we'll never know, because he didn't last.

 

[Frow]

That was the whole point of the post.

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[ChasHawk]

That was the whole point of the post.

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But my point is, I would argue that since he didn't have enough healthy years, that precludes him from the conversation all together.

 

[Gwynn545]

LOL!!!

Yet he'll end up winning this poll...::facepalm::

Mostly, in my opinion, because he's had autos in the last couple years topps products.

LOL also!

 

[rehmus]

Koufax has always been exempt from the career longevity discussion. If you rank the greatest individual seasons by each of these pitchers I would imagine Koufax would grab the entire top 5, maybe more. The bigger surprise to me is that there's an anti-Koufax sentiment... anywhere.