Submitted *** cards to PSA, "evidence of trimming"

[Topnotchsy]

I feel like I've been asking a lot recently, but I appreciate the help.

I recently sent 2 2001 SPx Albert Pujols RC Auto's that had been graded by *** to PSA to cross them over. Both came back with "evidence of trimming." Now I am trying to figure out what to do with them. I can try contacting the sellers, but I am not sure whether it is fair to ask for a refund on a graded card. Is there a chance PSA might have looked poorly at them because they were in a *** holder and it may be worth cracking them out and trying to resubmit them? I want to handle this honestly, but at the same time I knowing grading is subjective and companies will grade cards they've previously rejected, and companies may have biases that push them in one direction over the other...

Thanks

 

[George_Calfas]

PSA and BGS are pretty tight on size requirements and in or out of the GIA holder trimming in obvious.

IMHO hard to ask for a refund since you knowingly bought the cards graded, even if from a hack company.

Probably best bet to get BGS or PSA to holder them authentic and move in from them.

 

[Nate Colbert 17]

The reason it was submitted may have been that the seller knew it was trimmed.

 

[D-Lite]

What are the chances that 2 cards from different sellers were both trimmed? Especially on modern.

 

[Austin]

Many times grading companies rule a card was trimmed when it wasn't.
But the graders have no way to tell if the card is shorter because of a skilled trimmer, or the card cutting machines.

For instance, I have a 2004 Bowman Chrome Felix Hernandez autographed rookie that I pulled from a pack, and it's noticably shorter than other 2004 BC cards.
I have an '04 BCDP Delmon Young auto that's also smaller.
The size tolerances were kind of loose on a lot of early 2000s cards.

Or, your Pujols cards might be trimmed.

 

[corockies]

What are the chances that 2 cards from different sellers were both trimmed? Especially on modern.

On anything 2001 Pujols I'd say pretty high. Look at all the wiped serial #s on the Pujols '01 BC autograph.

Have to approach this hobby with skepticism because there's always something shady going on.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Sorry to hear this happened to you. *** is crap.

 

[George_Calfas]

Many times grading companies rule a card was trimmed when it wasn't.
But the graders have no way to tell if the card is shorter because of a skilled trimmer, or the card cutting machines.

For instance, I have a 2004 Bowman Chrome Felix Hernandez autographed rookie that I pulled from a pack, and it's noticably shorter than other 2004 BC cards.
I have an '04 BCDP Delmon Young auto that's also smaller.
The size tolerances were kind of loose on a lot of early 2000s cards.

Or, your Pujols cards might be trimmed.

PSA and BGS both have a different code for cards that are not within measurement tolerances.

 

[matfanofold]

I would certinly not involve the sellers, however i would resubmit cracked and if both come back trimmed again, then go the authentic slab route.

 

[SINFULONE]

On anything 2001 Pujols I'd say pretty high. Look at all the wiped serial #s on the Pujols '01 BC autograph.

Have to approach this hobby with skepticism because there's always something shady going on.

Did not know that.Some altered to his jersey number?

I read on BO of a '93 UD SP Jeter fresh out of the pack sent to PSA, and came back as trimmed.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Thanks for the responses guys. I know when I post here I'll get a range of thought out ideas and insights.

One thing is certain, I was a bit naive when it comes to trimming. While I know that it was (and probably still is) a reality, I somehow figured that since the cards were graded and the like they would be fine. I should have known better than that.

I'm a little torn about trying to regrade them. I already spent close to $50 trying once, and I don't really want to spend more on a potential money pit. I'm thinking of just taking them for what they are, (cards that PSA assumes are trimmed) and selling them sometime down the line as *** graded cards that PSA deems to have been trimmed. I'll likely take a bit of a loss on them (although I do expect all Pujols stuff to go up in value so maybe that compensates) and going forward I know I'll stick to BGS, PSA and SCG.

If anyone has any other thoughts I welcome and appreciate them.

 

[George_Calfas]

Thanks for the responses guys. I know when I post here I'll get a range of thought out ideas and insights.

One thing is certain, I was a bit naive when it comes to trimming. While I know that it was (and probably still is) a reality, I somehow figured that since the cards were graded and the like they would be fine. I should have known better than that.

I'm a little torn about trying to regrade them. I already spent close to $50 trying once, and I don't really want to spend more on a potential money pit. I'm thinking of just taking them for what they are, (cards that PSA assumes are trimmed) and selling them sometime down the line as *** graded cards that PSA deems to have been trimmed. I'll likely take a bit of a loss on them (although I do expect all Pujols stuff to go up in value so maybe that compensates) and going forward I know I'll stick to BGS, PSA and SCG.

If anyone has any other thoughts I welcome and appreciate them.

Get them to me ASAP and I will grade them probono for the previous card hookup.

 

[Topnotchsy]

Get them to me ASAP and I will grade them probono for the previous card hookup.

That's really unnecessary but very much appreciated. thanks!

 

[SINFULONE]

You bring up an interesting point.You see his cards increase in value when he hits 500 home runs, or when?I doubt they go up in value, could be wrong.Any other opinions on that?

 

[Musial Collector]

Willing to bet, if they are cracked out of cases and George submits them they will come back graded. This is not a know on George at all, this is on PSA. Just look at All Stars thread, he submitted that Jackie rookie, came back evidence trimmed, he submitted again and they graded it. PSA double dipping here is my $.02 worth.

 

[jcmint]

At the Nationals in 2010 I subbed a lebron 03-04 bowman chrome XFR that I pulled out of a pack. It came back trimmed. Needless to say I was pissed. I talked with the manager there and told him I pulled the card to please measure it again. Then they said it was an 8 which was also funny.
*** was known to take in questionable cards from volume bulkers and slab them. This is one of the big reasons not many put to much faith in their grades or holders.
If I were you I would sub them to BGS or even better sgc because I imagine the autos are spotty or streaky. Maybe the cards will measure right and at least you can honestly sell them and feel good about it.
There has to be thousands of cards in slabs that one person said trimmed and another said ok. Play the game see what shakes out

 

[Topnotchsy]

You bring up an interesting point.You see his cards increase in value when he hits 500 home runs, or when?I doubt they go up in value, could be wrong.Any other opinions on that?

I believe that prices went down so much when he was injured that they almost "have to" bounce back somewhat, and I think 500 homers will shine some light on how great a player he has been. A lot will depend on whether he returns to being a great player, but I think over the offseason they were just "too cheap."

I have to hope I'm right because I've put a lot into that line of reasoning lol. This thread shows a part of what I mean:
http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132838

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

Willing to bet, if they are cracked out of cases and George submits them they will come back graded. This is not a know on George at all, this is on PSA. Just look at All Stars thread, he submitted that Jackie rookie, came back evidence trimmed, he submitted again and they graded it. PSA double dipping here is my $.02 worth.

I agree with this, not because PSA is knowingly "double dipping," but because the *** holder biased them.

If it were me, I would crack them out of those *** slabs in any case, and I would send them back in (after a quick measurement). The gamble of actually getting them slabbed by PSA would be worth it, and I would rather have them raw than in a second rate holder anyway.

 

[WJCIII]

Unfortunately PSA kicked them because in all likelihood they are, in fact, trimmed. *** is no longer around because they decided to go dirty in an effort to steal business from BGS and PSA. Those cards were likely sent to *** because they were rejected by both BGS and PSA initially. A very high percentage of the raw copies of that particular card are trimmed so I don't know that cracking them would do you any good.

 

[Topnotchsy]

I agree with this, not because PSA is knowingly "double dipping," but because the *** holder biased them.

If it were me, I would crack them out of those *** slabs in any case, and I would send them back in (after a quick measurement). The gamble of actually getting them slabbed by PSA would be worth it, and I would rather have them raw than in a second rate holder anyway.

I believe you are correct here. I just cracked them out and measured them against a redemption card. They are 100% exactly the same size. I am highly sensitive to trimming in general and usually notice it just by seeing the card. With the auctions I used the design on the card when looking at the listing which had me feeling like they were fine, but once they came back from PSA I figured I was wrong.

Unfortunately PSA kicked them because in all likelihood they are, in fact, trimmed. *** is no longer around because they decided to go dirty in an effort to steal business from BGS and PSA. Those cards were likely sent to *** because they were rejected by both BGS and PSA initially. A very high percentage of the raw copies of that particular card are trimmed so I don't know that cracking them would do you any good.

I know *** does not have the best reputation but I cracked them out and measured them against a redemption card and they are 100% exactly the same size. (And then I measured the redemption card against another card to confirm that was full size lol). I had used the design as a way of eyeballing the measures when I bid and had thought they looked good. I guess I'll try again cracked out and see what happens. I'm feeling like in this case it may have been anti-*** bias.