Should Albert Belle be in the HOF?

[MansGame]

I know I am partial because I’m like the only player collector of his on here, so I wanted to open it up to the board for a poll and then some takes on why or why not you feel Albert Belle should be in the HOF (Hall of Fame). To stay away from my own feelings or comments (I’m sure you all can guess my vote) I thought I would include some of the articles I've read on the topic below.

Look forward to see the debate either way because there are a lot of guys on here who know statistics, etc.
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Belle played 12 seasons, longer than Kirby Puckett, Sandy Koufax, and Ralph Kiner. He didn’t quit because he couldn’t hack it. He was forced out by an arthritic hip. He played in 10 full seasons (and parts of two others) and during that peak decade he averaged 37 HR, 120 RBI and a roughly .360 OBP. In 1995 he became the first player to hit 50 doubles and 50 home runs in a season. Even in his last season, when he was hobbling around the bases, he hit .281 with 23 HRs and 103 RBI.

Belle had a better OPS+ than Harmon Kilebrew, Reggie Jackson, Ken Griffey, Jr., and Jim Rice (even if you ignore Rice’s pedestrian final three seasons). And if you’re interested in hardware, Belle made five all-star teams and won five Silver Slugger awards and surely should have won the 1995 AL MVP, except the voters hated him and instead awarded the MVP to Mo Vaughn, who had vastly inferior stats.

I’m not gonna blow smoke up your butts… I know Belle isn’t a slam dunk Hall of Famer. But surely he deserved better than the 3.5% of the vote he got in 2007, which was not enough to even merit another year on the ballot.

 

[fsulevine]

Absolutely not. At least McGwire and Sosa were very likeable and fan-friendly. Albert Belle was not close, and did not nearly have the career that McGwire or Sosa did. If Belle ever gets in, the entire HOF loses credibility. Pete Rose should be in 100X faster than Albert "Joey" Belle. He had off-the-field alcohol problems, played during the steroid era (did he do roids? I don't know, but my guess would be yes), plus had the whole "corked bat" incident.

 

[sportscardtheory]

If he didn't lose so may years to injury, definitely. The fact that he could no longer play hurts him. It's not like Kirby Puckett, who had a freak accident end his career.

 

[MansGame]

Absolutely not. At least McGwire and Sosa were very likeable and fan-friendly. Albert Belle was not close, and did not nearly have the career that McGwire or Sosa did. If Belle ever gets in, the entire HOF loses credibility. Pete Rose should be in 100X faster than Albert "Joey" Belle. He had off-the-field alcohol problems, played during the steroid era (did he do roids? I don't know, but my guess would be yes), plus had the whole "corked bat" incident.

I don't want to make this poll/thread a platform where I defend every post against Belle, etc. but you're post made me laugh... The three players you named as comparison were McGwire who didn't want to talk about the past (out of the Hall for roids), Sosa who forgot how to speak english when it came time to testify (out of the Hall for roids) and Pete Rose who is banned from baseball for betting on the game... but I guess Belle wasn't liked as much as others, didn't have super HOF numbers and had a corked bat incident lol

Anyways, I know he isn't a first ballot HOFer but I do appreciate others opinion... I'm guessing 25% of people (maybe less) will vote or think he should be in the hall.

**EDIT: I would probably vote "yes" to all three of these guys being in the hall; just wanted to add that to my response.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

The man dominated for a decade.

I personally think his attitude, as poor as it may have been, shouldn't have cost him as much as it did - off the ballot in two years? The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime here. Lost the '95 MVP for the same reason why he didn't get more votes.

Stat-wise I think he's a HOFer in any case.

 

[A_Pharis]

He's one of those guys that will always live under the shadow of his attitude. By the way - he's from Louisiana so I have a small collection of him.

 

[fsulevine]

I don't want to make this poll/thread a platform where I defend every post against Belle, etc. but you're post made me laugh... The three players you named as comparison were McGwire who didn't want to talk about the past (out of the Hall for roids), Sosa who forgot how to speak english when it came time to testify (out of the Hall for roids) and Pete Rose who is banned from baseball for betting on the game... but I guess Belle wasn't liked as much as others, didn't have super HOF numbers and had a corked bat incident lol

Anyways, I know he isn't a first ballot HOFer but I do appreciate others opinion... I'm guessing 25% of people (maybe less) will vote or think he should be in the hall.

**EDIT: I would probably vote "yes" to all three of these guys being in the hall; just wanted to add that to my response.

To me, and this is my personal opinion, Hall of Fame should be more than just numbers. It should be about people who are good ambassadors for the game, especially when there is anything "questionable" about their careers. Pete Rose SHOULD NOT be in the Hall of Fame because of a combination of 2 things: 1) He was found guilty of betting on baseball while involved in the game (i.e. insider trading) AND, more importantly, 2) Every single person I have met that has met him ALL said he was a complete @ss. Granted, I do believe he should be in MUCH before Belle, as every one of his hits were legit. While McGwire and Sosa (who also had a corked bat incident), had questions regarding their steroid use, they had the reputations of being very fan/media friendly, put smiles on faces for many years, and put fans in the seats that came to watch THEM play. Neither of them had any trouble off the field beyond the steroid investigation... and that was legal in baseball at the time (yes, when Belle played, too). But Belle had a nasty reputation when it came to dealing with fans and the media... he was NOT a good ambassador of the game, and thus, when coupled with the "questionable" on the field stats, therefore should NOT be in the HOF.

Thus, in my opinion, Belle and Rose, NO, McGwire and Sosa, YES.

 

[HPC]

The Hall of Very Good? Yes. The Hall of Fame, (which commemorates the best players the game has ever seen)? No

When I think of "the best players the game has ever seen" Albert Belle is nowhere near that thought cloud.

 

[homerun28aa]

He is not a HOFer. There are numerous threads about guys that have close to HOF numbers and guys that you can make a case for, for example Adrian Beltre there was a debate whether or not he had a chance to get into the HOF, but Beltre, much like Belle in my opinion, was not outstanding enough during his era to be HOF worthy. He should be on the ballot IMO, but I don't think he should or ever will get in purely on reputation that there were quite a few more dominating players who he played against in his era.

 

[trevordchi]

If Albert Belle makes the HOF and Jeff Bagwell doesn't there is something wrong with this world.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Albert Belle shouldn't be in before Juan Gonzalez should be in. Gonzalez played longer, two MVPs, etc.

And while Belle may have played longer than guys like Puckett, Puckett played in more games. As for Kiner...the dude led the league in HRs all 7 of his first 7 seasons and chicks (and voters) dig the long ball...even if the numbers are lower, it was a different era.

Belle's contract doesn't help either when he was in the top-10 in salary for 3 seasons in which he didn't play. Sure, he was injured and it was Baltimore's problem...but it carries.

He had a great run, but the length of career, attitude, cork, franchise crippling salary...not a good combination for HOF induction.

 

[MansGame]

I think everyone has excellent points and I assumed more would be leaning toward "no" than "yes". Anyways, this poll/question did start to come to my mind again considering two things 1) He was reintroduced to the hobby in 2010 and there has been a HUGE following; I compete on nearly every card of his now... 2) he's started to show up to Cleveland Indian's events again and has been welcomed and some say he is in line for their HOF.

 

[trevordchi]

Belle was a very good player and I think those fringe guys have to have extra intangibles to get in (great teammate, post season success, stellar D and baserunning etc). Unfortunately for Belle his intangibles took him in the wrong direction.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

He is not a HOFer. There are numerous threads about guys that have close to HOF numbers and guys that you can make a case for, for example Adrian Beltre there was a debate whether or not he had a chance to get into the HOF, but Beltre, much like Belle in my opinion, was not outstanding enough during his era to be HOF worthy. He should be on the ballot IMO, but I don't think he should or ever will get in purely on reputation that there were quite a few more dominating players who he played against in his era.

Beltre's 162 game splits are absolutely no where near Belle's.

Who dominated the game more than Belle while Belle was playing? If you can find someone, by how much?

 

[MansGame]

Beltre's 162 game splits are absolutely no where near Belle's.

Who dominated the game more than Belle while Belle was playing? If you can find someone, by how much?

Major Accolades and Awards:
5 Time All Star (1993, 1994, 1995, 1996 & 1997)
Silver Slugger (5) (1993, 1994, 1995, 1996 & 1998)
Highest Slugging Percentage (2) (AL) (1995 & 1998)
Most Runs Scored (1) (AL) (1995)
Most Total Bases (3) (AL) 1994, 1995 & 1998)
Most Doubles (1) (AL) (1995)
Most Home Runs (1) (AL) (1995)
Most Runs Batted In (3) (AL) (1993, 1995 & 1996)
Highest OPS (1) (AL) (1998)

Noteable All Time Rankings:
14th Slugging Percentage: .564
33rd OPS: .933
63th Home Runs: 381

 

[James52411]

Close but no cigar, as Albert ends up being not quite as valuable as Kirby Puckett over the course of his career and on par with Don Mattingly and Dale Murphy, both of whom were excellent players but are generally considered to be on the wrong side of the HOF "cut line." I decided to look up Belle's numbers and compare them to some other players.

Albert has excellent power numbers for the amount of time he played and his average WAR is roughly comparable to Kirby Puckett, but he played about 250 less games than Puckett, which gives Kirby the WAR advantage. Accordingly, he is clearly less valuable than Kirby was because Kirby gave you a year and a half of extra production. Actually, his production from a career standpoint is similar to Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly (offensively he is a bit superior, but defensively inferior, which to my mind balances things out a bit). Albert gave you a 2-3 more years of elite offensive production, but weaker defense than either player and the abrupt end to his career prevented him from tacking on additional "decent years" that still add value to a player's career. As a result, each of those players ended up being of very similar value to Albert over the entirety of their careers. Accordingly, I say that Albert is just a little short of being a Hall of Fame inductee.

 

[notjomommasclint]

Yes.. He was the most feared hitter in the game for 8 years. Those years crossed with some of the most prolific home run hitters in history.

He made those hitting around him better and pushed them around the bases with ease. He forced vleveland back onto the baseball map and built a stadium with his bat! Was he a nice guy? Hell no. But it's not the boy scouts hall of fame!

 

[JEA2880]

100% yes. The Hall of Fame should be about dominance, and no one dominated like Belle. I HATE the longevity argument - if you were great for any reasonable stretch of time, you should be in. I think a guy like Belle is far more deserving than a compiler like Andre Dawson or someone of similar ilk. Say what you want about his attitude but the guy could flat out HIT!

 

[jcmint]

he will not get in and he will not get close. never forget who is voting on these players right to get into the HOF. Belle who disliked by those members and will pay him the respect he gave to them. He mashed for a few years so did a ton of other very good ball players. He wont sniff the HOF

 

[JEA2880]

By the numbers - HR, RBI, AVG, OPS

1991 - 28 HR, 95 RBI, .282, .863
1992 - 34 HR, 112 RBI, .260, .797
1993 - 38 HR, 129 RBI, .290, .922
1994 - 36 HR, 101 RBI, .357, 1.152 OPS in 106 games!
1995 - 50 HR, 126 RBI, .317, 1.091
1996 - 48 HR, 148 RBI, .311, 1.033
1997 - 30 HR, 116 RBI, .274, .823
1998 - 49 HR, 152 RBI, .328, 1.055
1999 - 37 HR, 117 RBI, .297, .941
2000 - 23 HR, 103 RBI, .281, .817

The 8 years from 1992 to 1999 he averaged 40 HR, 125 RBI, and .302 average with a .969 OPS. That's as good of an 8 year stretch as I've ever seen.