1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro Variation Question (Pics)

[luker2324]

I have acquired quite a few of these cards and have what I believe to be more variations than are listed. I was hoping others may be able to help identify them. Could these just be printing flaws or ink running out? Or are they actual variations? Disclaimer - my scanner sucks. It is much easier to see the differences on the actual card.

White Marlboro

Red Marlboro

Green Marlboro

Partial Green Covered

Partial Red Covered

Green Box Covered

Red Box Covered

Dark Red Box Covered

Black Box Fully Covered (Most Common)

 

[luker2324]

Bump, hoping for some help identifying these from someone who is more familiar with them than me.

 

[theplasticman]

Great detail. Wish I knew more to help out.

I cringe at the thought of how many of these I possibly had. For a time I had several hundred of these.

 

[KLARNOLD]

I would guess that there probably as many variations as the Billy Rikpen F**K Face card. It would be nice to know if a particular Marlboro variation was only found with a particular Ripken variation.

 

[luker2324]

I don't know all of the minor Ripken black box variations, but I understand that the Johnson was caught far before the Ripken was corrected. I have opened many boxes that have the Ripken error and the Johnson is either a semi edited version or even a full black box.

I would guess that there probably as many variations as the Billy Rikpen F**K Face card. It would be nice to know if a particular Marlboro variation was only found with a particular Ripken variation.

 

[luker2324]

Thanks for the reply, I know i had sold many Johnsons over the years before I knew of the error also. I am still trying to track down the Treadway for my PC, which I very well may have sold off in a complete or team set.

Great detail. Wish I knew more to help out.

I cringe at the thought of how many of these I possibly had. For a time I had several hundred of these.

 

[UMich92]

Refresh my memory. What is the Treadway variation?

Alex

 

[luker2324]

The Treadway had a target located just above his hat. I'm sorry I do not have a scan for an example. They were also much more limited than the Ripken FF error.

Refresh my memory. What is the Treadway variation?

Alex

 

[MartinFFcollector]

Someone had 12 or more? Marlboro versions. I collected briefly and had 6 or so.

From memory- there's also Marlboro crossed out- red or green.

I have 19 different FF versions (none are print flaws)

Yes, Marlboro was corrected long before the FF was. (Early Jan '89)

You ever found any 1989 Fleer C-List w/positions in packs?

Bad Treadway pic

Here's a "White" Marlboro you need. Only one I've seen. Heard about it's existance for years but finally saw one this year. Not mine. It's my buddies, pics not altered.

 

[luker2324]

Thank you for your help with the Johnson's. I will continue to look. The Full white board is amazing. Would you mind sending me a list of the Ripken variations? I have seen your site and your Ripken collection is great. I have not found a checklist, but have saved this image from some posting sometime ago.

Someone had 12 or more? Marlboro versions. I collected briefly and had 6 or so.

From memory- there's also Marlboro crossed out- red or green.

I have 19 different FF versions (none are print flaws)

Yes, Marlboro was corrected long before the FF was. (Early Jan '89)

You ever found any 1989 Fleer C-List w/positions in packs?

Bad Treadway pic

Here's a "White" Marlboro you need. Only one I've seen. Heard about it's existance for years but finally saw one this year. Not mine. It's my buddies, pics not altered.

 

[MartinFFcollector]

No problem. Thanks for the compliment.

Ok. I just saw that in your bucket and was digging thru mine to see if it was the same. That card came from a thread on PSA and I posted it here and elsewhere.

Until my buddy and I have all versions, we dont list what versions we know of anymore. Once we have all in hand, we will add it to the site. There is a few we now have and one day will update the site. On here or PM, lmk what FF you have, and I'll help you out.


Found this older/shorter list of Marlboro-

1. The first printing of the card shows a red and white Marlboro billboard, complete with Marlboro man, behind Randy's left ear in the background.

2. The second printing still has the entire billboard visible, but dark, reddish shading/shadowing covers Marlboro and the red and white of the sign. Very noticable next to the first printing. Entire sign is still COMPLETELY visible despite shading.

3. The next version still has the sign visible, but there's a black line through the middle of the word Marlboro with the tops of all letters in Marlboro still clearly visible.(you can still tell the sign says Marlboro)

4. This version still shows the red and white of the sign, but there is a black blob where the word Marlboro once was, no longer showing tops of letters.

5. The Marlboro sign is completely gone, but a black rectangle, exactly in the shape of the Marlboro billboard, CLEARLY sticks out from the rest of the black background.

6. The most common "corrected" version. There is absolutely no trace of the Marlboro sign ever being there at all.

Your Marlboro collection is off to a great start. I'll PM you some people to contact.

 

[luker2324]

You've been thanked and I completely understand your stance on the Ripken's. I don't have many, but i have always loved error cards and collected them when I was younger. I have recently decided to start up collecting them for a PC. I thought the 89 Fleer and Johnson in particular would be a great place to start.

No problem. Thanks for the compliment.

Ok. I just saw that in your bucket and was digging thru mine to see if it was the same. That card came from a thread on PSA and I posted it here and elsewhere.

Until my buddy and I have all versions, we dont list what versions we know of anymore. Once we have all in hand, we will add it to the site. There is a few we now have and one day will update the site. On here or PM, lmk what FF you have, and I'll help you out.


Found this older/shorter list of Marlboro-

1. The first printing of the card shows a red and white Marlboro billboard, complete with Marlboro man, behind Randy's left ear in the background.

2. The second printing still has the entire billboard visible, but dark, reddish shading/shadowing covers Marlboro and the red and white of the sign. Very noticable next to the first printing. Entire sign is still COMPLETELY visible despite shading.

3. The next version still has the sign visible, but there's a black line through the middle of the word Marlboro with the tops of all letters in Marlboro still clearly visible.(you can still tell the sign says Marlboro)

4. This version still shows the red and white of the sign, but there is a black blob where the word Marlboro once was, no longer showing tops of letters.

5. The Marlboro sign is completely gone, but a black rectangle, exactly in the shape of the Marlboro billboard, CLEARLY sticks out from the rest of the black background.

6. The most common "corrected" version. There is absolutely no trace of the Marlboro sign ever being there at all.

Your Marlboro collection is off to a great start. I'll PM you some people to contact.

 

[Hatorade]

I know this message thread dried up a few years ago, but I've created a FB page dedicated to the 1989 Fleer Marlboro errors. I've got about 60 images of the error cards posted there now. I will be adding more content weekly, but there isn't a much else outhere regarding the cards so I wanted to create a place for anything 1989 Fleer #381. Thanks.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/1989-F ... 2665465676

 

[MartinFFcollector]

Not mine. From a friend whom I trust did not enhance it.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

i honestly never saw the big deal. they never fixed the McGwire rookie

 

[George_Calfas]

i honestly never saw the big deal. they never fixed the McGwire rookie

Comprehensive Smoking Education Act was passed 1984 and went into effect Oct 1985; after the release of the McGwire RC.

 

[DeliciousBacon]

i honestly never saw the big deal. they never fixed the McGwire rookie

I've never noticed that Marlboro sign on the McGwire until now. Did anyone even care when it came out?

 

[Hatorade]

Thanks for the photo Martin. I've never seen any Marlboro card close to that clear but there are few things about it the raise some questions. The red is very light on that entire card (even on the PSA flip) and it makes everything red almost a pinkish color. It's also missing the identifying mark that majority of the Marlboro's have, but once again my experience is with the non-clear varieties. If it is authentic that card is the rarest RJ rookie by far.

@ThoseBackPages-If they would have fixed the McGwire that would have lead to an error designation for the original version of the card as well, this would have resulted in one of the versions being a sp. To me the allure comes from Marlboro being a big part of American culture and like George mentioned the fact that it is no longer supposed to be included because of Comprehensive Smoking Education Act. Also, the Marlboro versions are far more rare that the common card. About 4% of the #381's graded by PSA and BGS have the error designation. The PSA/BGS method for determining which version of the card it is a whole other subject I’d like to talk about as I've seen errors they label as CBO and I have several Ad on Scoreboard cards that have been shaded much more than cards PSA designated as Ad Partial. There is so much ambiguity with properly cataloging this card that I think it detracts from the overall interest of the card.

What I don't understand is why the Frank Thomas NNOF error sells for $1600 in a PSA 8 and this card goes for less than $20. In nearly every description I've seen for someone selling a NNOF they mention a production total of 150, but there are currently 196 NNOF cards graded by PSA/BGS so that number is completely wrong yet regurgitated on a daily basis in selling the Frank Thomas error. There have been 363 Marlboro error designations from PSA/BGS so it isn't too far off from the NNOF. Would you rather have rare error rookie from an overhyped first baseman that probably won't make the hall for $1600 or a similarly scarce rookie from one the top ten pitchers of all time and a sure fire 1st ballot HOFer for $20?

 

[beefycheddar]

Thanks for the photo Martin. I've never seen any Marlboro card close to that clear but there are few things about it the raise some questions. The red is very light on that entire card (even on the PSA flip) and it makes everything red almost a pinkish color. It's also missing the identifying mark that majority of the Marlboro's have, but once again my experience is with the non-clear varieties. If it is authentic that card is the rarest RJ rookie by far.

@ThoseBackPages-If they would have fixed the McGwire that would have lead to an error designation for the original version of the card as well, this would have resulted in one of the versions being a sp. To me the allure comes from Marlboro being a big part of American culture and like George mentioned the fact that it is no longer supposed to be included because of Comprehensive Smoking Education Act. Also, the Marlboro versions are far more rare that the common card. About 4% of the #381's graded by PSA and BGS have the error designation. The PSA/BGS method for determining which version of the card it is a whole other subject I’d like to talk about as I've seen errors they label as CBO and I have several Ad on Scoreboard cards that have been shaded much more than cards PSA designated as Ad Partial. There is so much ambiguity with properly cataloging this card that I think it detracts from the overall interest of the card.

What I don't understand is why the Frank Thomas NNOF error sells for $1600 in a PSA 8 and this card goes for less than $20. In nearly every description I've seen for someone selling a NNOF they mention a production total of 150, but there are currently 196 NNOF cards graded by PSA/BGS so that number is completely wrong yet regurgitated on a daily basis in selling the Frank Thomas error. There have been 363 Marlboro error designations from PSA/BGS so it isn't too far off from the NNOF. Would you rather have rare error rookie from an overhyped first baseman that probably won't make the hall for $1600 or a similarly scarce rookie from one the top ten pitchers of all time and a sure fire 1st ballot HOFer for $20?

Frank Thomas will make the hall of fame. If you think otherwise you are sorely wrong. He was one of the most dominant hitters of the 90's.

 

[Hatorade]

So, do you think Rafael Palmero should be in the HOF? He and Frank have very similar #'s from the inflated steriod era. If he was such a dominant hitter in the 90's you think his team would have made to the playoffs more than once.